rams for a small flock

[bighorn]

we have 10 to 15 ewes (dorper & dorper/damara) and have had a few different rams over the last few years and have had mixed results with the number of lambs produced.
2009 our 15month old dorper ram got every ewe pregnant but this year only 4 had lambs by him, he was with the ewes all of both years.
this year we have a new 12month old ram but are keeping him seperate untill we are ready to breed.
 
is 1 ram normally enough for 10 to 15 ewes?

[Suzie Q]

I have no idea about sheep and rams.

However for him to have every ewe pregnant one year and only 4 the next year something has happened, and most probably has happened to your ram to become infertile.

This is something I would look into as you maybe able to vaccinate against it.

[dorpersheep]

Hi Bighorn,
1 ram should be able to manage 40-50 ewes in a period of 8-10 weeks. Especially a young bloke like that in his prime.
 
From the way numbers dropped off so dramatically, I would suspect brucellosis. I've had sheep 7 years and this is the only thing i can think of that would cause your problems. (unless you are in another part of Aust that has a problem I have not come across)
Brucellosis is a virus that renders rams infertile, or almost so.
Once a ram has it you cannot treat or cure it.
If he has been in contact with your younger ram I would be 99.9% certain the young bloke has it too. (passed on via sexual contact & rams being rams, sodomy is rife).
 
If your rams are quiet enough, sit them up and gently manipulate their testicles, they will feel hard and lumpy. The lumps are the disease - stops sperm travelling through. Eventually everything gets blocked up and they are then totally infertile.
 
Did you get your young ram from a stud that tests? If not then he could well be the source, came in infected and then passed it on to the older guy. Or ewes can carry it - ewes that get pregnant to an infected ram usually abort, but htey can carry the virus internally for about 6 months, so if you brought any new ewes in, they could have given it to your ram. Or the older guy came to you carrying it but managed to work the first year before his sperm count dropped too low.
Do your neighbours have sheep that have ever (even only 1) wandered into your flock?
 
The only cure is prevention. Your vet can do a blood test/manipulation to check that this is the problem. Once you know it is brucellosis, all you can do is cull all your rams & leave your ewes empty for more than 6 months so that any carrying the virus are clean. Then start again with a ram from a stud that tests for it. Please ask to see their certificate. If they don't have one, go somewhere else. Might cost a bit more in the short term but you won't have these problems again.
 
Sorry not good news, but i hope it helps.

Cheers, Cate

[djb]

Yep,1 ram to 40-50 ewes will get them all pregnant in 6 weeks[2 cycles].Brucellosis will do this ,also some other STD's.Any stress will cause TEMPORARY infertility as well as extreme mineral/vitamin deficiency[unlikely].I think a vet check & blood test for brucellosis is your best bet.
Most sheep stud breeders & people that show their sheep must be brucellosis tested free.
Is your ram in good nick,looks healthy??Testes should feel firm & springy;not soft & not rock hard.Does he act like a ram?Have you seen him mating?These are all ?? a vet will/should ask!

[heidi]

Hello Bighorn
Other than disease, what was your flock management? Maybe Dorpersheep can explain what affect, if any, late weaning of the lambs may have on pregnancy rates?
Just a thought, other than the diseases mentioned already.
H.

[dorpersheep]

Sorry not to have replied sooner, I've been away at sheep school.
 
Late weaning (or even, lack of weaning) should not make any difference. Dorper or damara ewes start cycling even while still lactating so it would be expected if the ram was in with them he should have got them pregnant even if they still had lambs on them.
In the past when our circumstances allowed it, we often kept the ram in with the girls all the time and they regularly lambed every 6 months in good conditions - so were pregnant 1 month after giving birth.
I have my old girl locked up well away from rams as she is already cycling, 6 weeks after giving birth to twins at age 14. I promised her no more and I mean it!!!!!
 
Only thing I can think of is that if the body condition of your ewes is extremely poor they may have stopped cycling. As long as the ewes look healthy and are not skinny or too fat then the problem really sounds like it is with the ram.
 

[Mark]

Hi Dorpersheep,
 
Slightly off topic; what is sheep school?
 
Cheers
 
Mark

[dorpersheep]

G'day Mark,
I re-read this post after I had put it up and wondered if anyone would ask!
 
The Dorper Society occasionally offers 5 day training schools to teach participants how to class their sheep, what problems to look for, etc. We use a South African-derived classing system for stud Dorpers so it is an opportunity to learn how it works. Pass the two levels and you are able to sit the South African judging exam. I think so far only 2 people have ever passed the judges exam. Not sure if I will ever go to Sth Africa to do that but lucky for me I did pass the senior exam this year - it is an expensive holiday otherwise!!!
 
This is way too hard to explain in any detail to my 4 year olds, so we just say Mum is off to "sheep school".
(I think sometimes the poor kids are imagining a line up of sheep sitting at school desks......!)
 

[Mark]

Hi again,
 
Even further off topic!
 
Have you found the Dorper Society to be worthwhile joining? I have heard some good and some bad, particularly that there is a changing of the guard that is being resisted, resulting in not much action happening.
 
We only have 3 Dorper X's at the moment but are intending on building that up and both Bride and I want to grow our knowledge as well.
 
cheers
 
Mark

[heidi]

Sheep school
H.

[sheepfreak]

I sort of had problems with my ewe's not being in lamb. 2009 all ewe's lambed from May to August, left the rams in till the start of December took them out and no lambs at all. I think there was 2 problems i didn't wean the lambs and the ewe's were very very fat, there was 8 ewes 2 rams and 9 lambs on 22ac with lots and lots of feed. My good neighour came and helped me out. Took the rams and lambs out, put the ewe's in a smaller block with not much feed, too try and trim them down. In April 2010 put in some new rams he had sorce from one of his friend (w/dorpers)and hopefully they will Lamb in Sept.
John

[dorpersheep]

Couple of things for you to consider...
Sometimes dorper ewes once they have run to fat never come back into season, even if they are slimmed down. So any that don't lamb this year are probably not going to.
You should not need to wean the lambs to get the ewes cycling again, so the problem was more likely that they were too fat.
Although that could depend a bit on what cross they are? Lower crosses could act more like the merino or suffolk or whatever they were bred up from, in which case they do not cycle while lactating.
While Dorpers are considered non-seasonal breeders they are not very fertile in the months of late Sept-Oct-Nov. We mated one year through that period and got not a single lamb. Note these non-fertile months could be different in your region to mine. If you know anyone else in the district who has Dorpers, ask them. If you know no-one, please let me know whereabouts you are and I will send you the details of your nearest stud breeders, who will be very pleased to offer some advice I am sure.
Also, if you are trying to get them to hold pregnancies over the hottest time of the year, they will often 'slip' the pregnancy (abort) if the weather is too hot. We lost another lot of lambs one summer when we had a run of 10 days over 55 degrees, it was just too hot for them.
Ewes are generally at their most fertile from Feb-Apr. Means lambs born Jul-Oct.

[sheepfreak]

The w/dorpers I purchased were purebreeds I have there rego papers. When you say they won't get in lamb again is that for a period of time or forever .
1 thing I won't do again is leave the ram with them, I want them to lamb all around the same time, also i am dividing my paddock up I feel that will give me better control over them, not getting to fat again? 

[dorpersheep]

I know of a number of ewes who got too fat and thus far have never lambed again - we are talking more than 2 years since they produced lambs.
yes, for lambs all at once, you have to take the ram out. Up your ewe's feed quality about 3 weeks before you put them to the ram, this will help you get twins. One ram should be able to mate 25 ewes in 6 weeks if not less as long as he is not chasing them around a huge paddock.

[dorpersheep]

Hi again,
 
Even further off topic!
 
Have you found the Dorper Society to be worthwhile joining? I have heard some good and some bad, particularly that there is a changing of the guard that is being resisted, resulting in not much action happening.
 

This is a hard one. I have been quite involved in the Dorper Society in my region (different one to what yours would be) and you are right, there is a changing of the guard trying to happen at the moment. Shame is the 'new guard' if you like is so busy infighting they are shooting themselves in the foot as often as getting on with the job.
Information is not being shared in our region and it is hard to make an educated decision on what is really going on.
I didn't get into breeding sheep to play politics so have taken a back seat for the time being.
I have a hard time telling people to join the society unless they want to register purebred animals - I dont' see there is a great deal of value in it from a commercial sense. The society realises this needs to change so you might want to keep an eye on their website www.dorper.com.au to see what is happening. There are often field days, information days and short courses run especially in NSW, I can thoroughly recommend anyone wanting to learn more about Dorpers to go to as many of these as you can. Doubly so if there is a South African inspector attending - they are a treasure trove of infomation and I have found them to be really helpful people, in the main Dorper breeders are a passionate lot and always happy to talk sheep to anyone who stops still long enough to listen.